At this time, only the three current models from Vest, the Center, Contrast and Horisont are found in the database (http://www.phototrans.eu/autobusy.php?s=0304&nr=2047), but I think that also the older models that had proper model names should be there, to assosiate buses with them.

From the factory started up in 1967 and until 1986 Vest never used model names, but there were different types. These different types were later categorized by some Norwegian busfans, and are called type 1-6. The most known outside Norway are type 4 and type 6, that can be found second hand in the Baltic countries.

But then they started with model names ...

Vest Ambassadør
In 1986 came the prototype of the Vest Ambassadør. This was the model for tourist and express coach services. It more or less followed the type 6 from earlier. The Ambassadør was available in a variety of heights, from 325 to the rather large 370, where the number resembles the number of centimetres. The Ambassadør were built on chassises from Volvo, Scania, MB, MAN and DAF, but the most common was probably Volvo B10M.

Here is an example of one of the few Vest Ambassadør 370. Not the prettiest, I will admit.

UA 16814 at Telemark Kollektivtrafikk in Skien, Telemark, Norway, 04.08.2007.

And here is one of the more common height Vest Ambassadør 340.

NV 43402 at Bø railway station, Telemark, Norway, 18.09.2006.


In 1999 came a facelift that among busfans is called Ambassadør II. It was produced until 2004, and was followed by the Horisont in 2005.
Here is a Vest Ambassadør II 340. At this time it was only available as 340 and 350, and not many were built.


LH 97294 in Prinsens gate, Oslo, Norway, 11.10.2007.


Vest Liner
In 1987 came the Vest Liner, which followed the type 4. It was only available in two heights; 310 and 320. They were built more or less on the same chassises as the Ambassadør, but of course with less powered versions, as the Liner was a model for city and local traffic. To tell the different heights from each other by just looking at them is almost impossible.

Here is a Vest Liner 320 Midi, where Midi means that it is a short version.

NE 55429 at Telemark Bilruter in Seljord, Telemark, Norway, 06.07.2007.

And here is a Vest Liner 320 that has an excessive number of headlights.

UA 15905 at Drangedal Bilruter in Drangedal, Telemark, Norway, 14.06.2009.


Vest V10/V25
In 1997 came the prototypes of the new V10 and V25 series. Here the different heights got different model names, with V10 being 310cm and V25 was 325cm.

Here is a V25, built on Scania L94IB.

UA 23986 at Åsen, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway, 09.06.2008.

Unfortunately I don't have a pic of a V10 available, but I will explain the main visual difference later.


Vest V10LE/V25LE
The Vest V10LE and V25LE are the low entry versions of V10/V25.

Here is a V10LE. Compared to the V10/V25, you can see that there is a thicker space over the side windows and less under them.

NE 92287 at Telemark Kollektivtrafikk in Skien, Telemark, Norway, 04.08.2007.

And here is a V25LE. The main difference from the V10LE is visible in the front. Just under the headlights is a body part that looks like a bumper and goes all the width of the bus. If you compare to the picture of the V10LE, this part is not there, and that is the major visual difference. The same visual difference is between the V10 and the V25, so it is easy to remember.

UA 22732 at Telemark Kollektivtrafikk in Skien, Telemark, Norway, 27.03.2010.



Also, there are some weird bastards here and there. This one is a V10LE body built on a Volvo B10B-CNG chassi, so it has the low entry body, but is not low entry at all.

GA 10001 at Team Trafikk in Trondheim, Sør-Trøndelag, Norway, 21.08.2007.



Anyway, these are the following types I would like to be added:
Vest Ambassadør
Vest Liner
Vest V10/V25
Vest V10LE/V25LE

If it is difficult to get the special Norwegian character "ø", it can be made with Alt + 0248
or in HTML even simpler with the & oslash ; code.

decomposed05 wrote:Ok. Lets put on ice this two (?) Setra (Sindbad and one foreign)

Hmm. I don't quite understand what you mean.


Anyway, now all Setra are sorted. Those that were only labeled like "S215" and where I did not find out exactly which model they were, I renamed to "S215 ??" and put them in the category that looked most correct. I am sorry that I don't know much about the 200-series, but there are not many left up here as they are getting pretty old by now.

Thanks for fixing this! The wrong categorizing of Setra has annoyed me since I first registered here, so now I am happy!

400-series:
I've looked through all of them, and only thing wrong is the name "S411 HDH", which should be "S411 HD".

300-series:
All buses sorted, except some S315 NF and unknown "S315" found in the S31x HDH category (former S315). They were so many so I got fed up and did something else.

200-series:
All categories sorted except "S21x HD" (former S215), where there is a lot to do.
The following should be done:
S209 -> rename "S20x H"
S210 -> rename "S21x H"
S211 -> rename "S215 SL"
S208 and S212 are obsolete.

Notice: I have changed my suggestion in my last post so that "S21x RL" are together with S21x UL. This looks more correct, but I do not know if it is.

empi wrote: S110, S120, S130, S140, S150 - without changes, there aren't a lot of them on TWB database
S208 H
S209 H
S210 H, S210 HD
S211 H, S211 HD
S212 H
S213 H, S213 UL, S213 RL
S214 HD
S215 H, S215 HD, S215 HR, S215 RL, S215 UL, S215 SL, S215 NF, S215 HDH/3

I don't know much about so old Setra models, but my idea to categorize them based on all different types I could find and looking at pictures how high they are and how they are built, here is my suggestion:

S 20x H
- S 208 H, S 209 H
- S 208 HM, S 209 HM

S 21x H
- S 210 H, S 211 H, S 212 H, S 213 H, S 215 H
- S 213 HR, S 215 HR
- S 215 HR-GT
- S 215 HM

S 21x UL
- S 213 UL, S 215 UL
- S 213 RL, S 215 RL

S 21x SL
- S 215 SL
- S 215 NR, S 217 NR

The 20x H and 21x H could probably be in same category, but those 208 and 209 are very short.
The HD, HDS and HDH are okay as they are now. Also the SG (articulated) models are probably okay as they are.

There is also another model that is somewhere between 200 and 300 series, which is S 300 NC. I forgot to mention it earlier.

empi wrote:What is the difference between: S315 H and S315 UL, S315 HD and S315 GT-HD?

S 315 H and S 315 UL are probably very much the same, just like the S 415 H of today is a S 415 UL with a higher floor. (No external differences beside the name.)
S 315 GT-HD is the predecessor of S 415 GT-HD, and S 315 HD is the predecessor of S 415 HD. It's as simple as that. The HD is both a bit higher than the GT-HD, but it is also much more a full-breed tourist coach, while the GT-HD is more like a express coach or a tourist coach for shorter trips. You can actually get the GT-HD as a 5-star tourist coach, but that is very rare.

decomposed05 wrote:Ok. I will try to do this in this way.

Nice!

On the german language Wikipedia page for Setra is a nice list of different models and when they came, but it does not include all variations of all models: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setra


When it comes to updating the buses in the database, I may help do that work if you need that. It's just to make the categories that I obviously can't do.

I am not sure about adding too many categories. Models like Citaro are built in thousands, while most of the Setra models are only built in a few hundreds. Then one could have own categories for those models that are very numerous, and put together those that are not so many. I do not know any build count for all Setra models, but I guess the NF and UL are those with highest numbers. Possibly also the GT-HD, but only the shortest length.

The way the Setra models are organized today is probably not the best for how to tell one bus from another. It seems that the model number is considered the major type and then the letters are the subtype, but that is not the case with the Setra models.

The first digit of the number is giving the generation of models, so S4xx is 4th generation, and so on.
Then the letters behind the numbers give what kind of bus and what height, etc. Starting with NF as the low floor bus and HDH as the highest and best tourist coaches, with a lot of models in between. They are also grouped for different markets, with MultiClass for city and regional traffic, ComfortClass for express coaches and some tourist coaches, and TopClass for the top of the line tourist coaches.
Then the last two digits of the number give the maximum number of seat rows. In other words it says something about how long the bus is. So the S431 has maximum 31 seat rows and S411 has maximum 11 seat rows. But most buses will not have so high number of seat rows, because they want to give their passengers more comfort and leg room.

With this in mind the grouping of models today give kind of wrong result. Take for example S415, which includes S415NF, S415UL, S415H, S415GT-HD, S415HD and S415HDH. That would be the same as putting Mercedes Citaro, Integro, Tourismo RH, Tourismo, Travego and Travego SHD in the same group, because they are technically the same models as the Setras. Do you agree that this looks wrong?


Here is a suggestion for how to organize the models. The names in bold text are those I suggest to be a type you can choose, and then you would write the exact model yourself.
The list includes all known models of the 300 and 400 series (except the US market), but I don't know all models in the 200 series, so I just put some known models there.
I have separated S309HD from S312HD/S315HD, and S411HD from S415HD because the S309HD and S411HD are considered midibus length, while the others are considered normal.

TopClass 400
------------
S 431 DT
- S 431 DT

S 41x HDH
- S 415 HDH
- S 416 HDH
- S 417 HDH

S 415 HD
- S 415 HD

S 411 HD
- S 411 HD


ComfortClass 400
----------------
S 41x GT-HD
- S 415 GT-HD
- S 416 GT-HD
- S 416 GT-HD/2
- S 417 GT-HD
- S 419 GT-HD

S 41x GT
- S 415 GT
- S 416 GT


MultiClass 400
--------------
S 41x H
- S 415 H
- S 416 H

S 41x UL
- S 412 UL
- S 415 UL
- S 416 UL
- S 417 UL
- S 419 UL

S 41x NF
- S 415 NF
- S 416 NF



(TopClass)
----------
S 328 DT
- S 328 DT

S 316 HDS
- S 316 HDS

S 31x HDH
- S 315 HDH/2
- S 315 HDH/3
- S 317 HDH

S 31x HD
- S 315 HD
- S 312 HD

S 309 HD
- S 309 HD


ComfortClass
------------
S 31x GT-HD
- S 315 GT-HD
- S 317 GT-HD
- S 319 GT-HD

S 315 GT
- S 315 GT


MultiClass
----------
S 315 H
- S 315 H

S 31x UL
- S 313 UL
- S 315 UL
- S 316 UL
- S 317 UL
- S 319 UL

SG 321 UL
- SG 321 UL

S 31x NF
- S 315 NF
- S 319 NF


a bit of 200-series
-------------------

S 228 DT
- S 228 DT

S 21x HDH
- S 215 HDH
- S 217 HDH

S 21x HDS
- S 215 HDS
- S 216 HDS


Here on Phototrans the moderators have commented me for not writing the models like S415 HD (one space after number). I personally write like S415HD (no spaces), but in all text from Setra/EvoBus they write it like S 415 HD (two spaces). I think the best would be to use what Setra use, so why is that not axcepted here? I don't see it as a big problem, but would like to know what is the reason.

Sorry for not following up and maybe making a confusion.

When I write about Scania Kxxx, then I mean only the chassis. All chassises from Scania that other body builders can build on are in the K-series.
I am not sure what is most right of using the name of the chassis or the name of the body. I see a lot of different use, and sometimes the moderators comment on it, sometimes not.



But anyway there needs to be a place for the Scania OmniExpress, which came in 2007 and is very popular in the Nordic countries. (More than 100 sold in Norway so far!)
http://www.scania.com/products-services ... niexpress/

The model naming is a bit advanced. They are available in all power outputs from 200-something and up to 480 BHP/PS. They ar also available in either IB or EB type suspension. Also there are two different body heights; OmniExpress 340 and OmniExpress 360.
Some examples of models are:
LK280IB OmniExpress 340
LK480EB OmniExpress 360

See that there is an L infront of the K. The L = Lahti, or Lahden Autokori, which is the factory in Finland where it is built.

My suggestion for what to call the type of model is either just Scania OmniExpress, or to follow the same idea as with the other Omni-models from Scania, it could be Scania LKxx0 or Scania LKxx0xB.

I googled a bit more myself, and found that Scania recently adjusted their system with new power outputs. They now have K480, K440, K400, K360, K320, etc., while the old system was K470, K420, K380, K340, K310, etc..
This makes it even more a reason for using K EB and K IB, instead of having a forest of different types. At least that is my opinion.

Here I will post some requests for adding vehicle types that I find missing. Not sure if this is the best subforum for this thread, but I find it most related at least. I could post these requests directly to the admins, but since this is an open community webplace, I find it better to do it here, so anybody can have their say at it.

This first time I will take a look at Scania K-chassises. Earlier it was simple with just K114 and K124, but now when they instead use the number of horsepowers, it gets quite a lot of different ones. As of yet I can only find K340 and K380, but in Norway there are quite a lot of buses with more than 400 hp. The most common among express coaches is K420, so that's absolutely one needed. But there are a few ones with K470 too. And in the last year we have also seen K400 and K480. K480 are there only known to be two of in Norway, and I read a report about one in Australia, otherwise they are probably quite rare, but they do exist. My guess is though that they have replaced the K470, but still they are not exact the same.
Then there would be a need to add K400, K420, K470 and K480.
(So far I have added a lot of these buses under K380, which is the closest I found.)

Or alternatively it would be better to sort them by chassi type, rather than power. Currently there are three different types of K-chassi: K___UB (low entry), K___IB (normal floor, stiff front axle) and K___EB (normal floor, independent front axle). At least in Norway this would tell a lot more about what kind of bus it is and what kind of traffic it is made for. In Norway you will mostly find IB on local/regional routes and shorter express coach routes, while almost all longer express coach routes and on tourist coaches you will find EB.
I know that the K3x0UB have their own type already (and even the quite odd K380UB fits in there), but what about adding the IB and EB types too?
Of course the admin(s) have to decide on this, but if you have an opinion on it, it would be nice to see what you think.



Could also mention Volvo. They are quite soon coming with their B13 engine, which probably will be named B13R, but I haven't heard any official information yet. Still there are only known to be a few test buses around, so there is no hurry to add the type. (There is at least one on test in express coach traffic in Norway, which is rebuilt from a B12B chassis.)