Regulamin edycji danych części niekolejowej TWB

[decomposed05]

Empi: no to mi się podoba
Amalio: widzisz, jak chcesz to potrafisz
Jarosz: Będę czekać
Erka: możesz poprawiać co do tego co się zgadzamy (czyli oprócz punktu 3.10 i 3.12).

[Amalio]

Punkt wpisany przez Amalio jest za długi

Twój jest krótszy o zaledwie 40 znaków(bez spacji).

zawiera jakieś ironiczne wstawki

Ale co według Ciebie jest tu ironicznego? Ostatnie zdanie? Ja myślę, że to najbardziej konkretne wytłumaczenie obecnej sytuacji jakie można znaleźć. Po za tym co innego tu mogłoby według Ciebie zawierać ironię - zdanie o czuwaniu nad poprawnością? A nie jest tak? Mi właśnie wydaje się, że wkładamy sporo wysiłku w to by omówić coś ze wszystkich stron, pokłócić się która jest ważniejsza, a potem coś uradzić.

porusza właściwie dwie oddzielne kwestie.

Jak dla mnie to nie porusza, bo tak jak napisałem - jedno wynika z drugiego. Jeżeli jakaś forma zapisu jest jedyną słuszną i jak widać nie ma w niej nazwy handlowej, to znaczy, że nie stosujemy nazw handlowych. Dalej w moim punkcie jest wyjaśnienie dlaczego ich nie stosujemy.
A jeżeli już takowa jest, to dlatego, że mamy powód by ją stosować.

Nie jestem pewien czy Amaliowi o to chodziło, niech to doprecyzuje jeszcze, ale według mnie powinno to mieć mniej-więcej taką formę, w dwóch oddzielnych punktach.

Zasadniczo napisałeś to samo co ja tylko, że osobno. Sens jest raczej zachowany.
A mi rozchodzi się o to co sam napisałem...
Jedyne czego nie napisałeś(a ja to poruszyłem), to kwestia oznaczeń nieformalnych - wymyślonych. To też jest ważna kwestia.
Jedyne czego ja nie napisałem, a co Ty napisałeś i chciałbym żeby też zostało umieszczone w punkcie, to jeżeli "If you have any questions or you think that something is incorrect, please ask on the forum. Don't change anything alone".
A forma czy w jednym, dwóch, a nawet dziesięciu punktach - róbcie jak chcecie. Mi moja forma i treść się podoba.

[empi]

Nie no, to są dwie kwestie - nazwy handlowe to jedno (3.10), drugie to zmienianie dotychczasowego zapisu według własnego widzimisię (3.12). Trochę wynikają jedna z drugiej, ale nie do końca, a dla przejrzystości regulaminu warto, żeby były to oddzielne kwestie.

Mam jeszcze jeden wyjątek w nazwach handlowych: Neoplan N316 SHD Neobody. To są wozy karosowane na obcych podwoziach, w odróżnieniu od integralnych N316 SHD. Poznaje je się po innych światłach przednich.

Przy okazji jakiś artysta zdublował serię Mercedes Medio. Po raz kolejny proszę o wprowadzenie historii edycji serii, tak jak w pojazdach, żeby wychwycić kto bałagani w seriach.

[Amalio]

Przy okazji jakiś artysta zdublował serię Mercedes Medio.

Ten artysta to Krzychu.

[empi]

No i jak? Dokończymy ten temat? Jaroszu, gdzie jesteś! Przybywaj!

[decomposed05]

Również czekam.

[koziutek]

no już, już

Dopisałem parę rozwinięć opartych o długie doświadczenia z częstymi błędami popełnianymi głównie przez użytkowników spoza Polski, niebędących na bieżąco z różnymi niepisanymi zasadami.

W paru miejscach możnaby poprawić stylistykę (kalki z polskiego mogą być czasem niezrozumiałe), no ale to już jak ustali się ostateczną wersję.

1.1. We are adding places (cities or towns) which have registered operators or settlements having municipal privileges.
1.2. Photos should be connected in order of country subdivision rules:
- Poland / Polska - gmina
- we are waiting for input from other countries.

In general, do not add cities/villages with population smaller than 1 000 (liczba do dyskusji, może być i 5000), unless there is no other larger municipality in close proximity.

In case of large metropolitan areas, which consist of many districts or boroughs officially treated as independent towns (e.g. London, Brussels), we do not fall into details and we treat the entire area a a single city.

2.2.1. In field "Full name" we should write full name of operator without abbreviations and suffixes like GmBh, DOO, SA etc. In case we are adding unknown operator we can insert "?" here.

No to raczej martwy przepis z tymi sufiksami, wszedzie mamy praktycznie spolki zoo itp dopisane. Co innego w skrotach, tam oczywiście trzeba to tępić. No i unikać rozwijania tych 'spółek akcyjnych', też czasem się to zdarza.

2.2.2. In field "Abbreviation" we should add abbreviation of operators name like "MPK" from "Miejskie Przedsiębiorstwo Komunikacyjne". Descriptions and other information are not allowed here.

Try to make the abbreviation as short as possible. Do not use quotation marks.

2.2.5. In field "Web Pag" we should type web address of official page of company starting with "http://". Adding unofficial sites here is not allowed.

You can add links to unofficial sites in the "other information" field, if they contain valuable, comprehensive information about the transportation system (e.g. fleet lists, history)

2.5. Leasing is treaten like a "normal" ownership of company which is using vehicle. We can add info about it in "other information".

That also applies to the following situation: if the vehicle is being operated by a sub-contractor or leased for a longer, permanent period, we enter the actual operator as the owner, even if the vehicle officially belongs to another company or a governmental authority. The "Rented" fields are intended mainly for short, temporary rents and tests.

{to generalnie zapisanie ustaleń z dyskusji o wpisywaniu ZTM/MPK Lublin i starostwa powiatowego w Bielsku}

2.7. Vehicles of operators we do not know we should assign to operator "?" and name of the city which is pointed by registration plates (not applicable to Hungary of course - in this case we are relaying on your nose). In doubts you are welcome on our forum.

...name of the capital of the smallest administrative subdivision you can derive basing on the registration plates or other characteristics of the vehicle.
In some countries which do not distinguish subdivisions on their plates (e.g. Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania) you might probably need to assign the vehicle to the country's capital.

3. Vehicles
3.1. Before adding new vehicle record, please check if vehicle already exists in database. It can be done using function "search vehicle".
3.2. No presumptions or guesses allowed. You should not add information if you are not completely sure of it. Any unconfirmed information should be put in Other Information field.
3.3. Writing "xxx", "x", "?", "." as registration plates or vehicle numbers are not allowed.
3.4. In case if model of vehicle is unknown, it should be assigned to "Miscellaneous vehicles". Assigning vehicles to invalid models is forbidden.
3.5. If model name is not listed, ask it to be added on forums because only people with "Editor" privileges can do that. This is for avoiding mess in list of vehicles.

tu gdzieś można wstawić coś takiego, niektórzy traktują "zezłomowany" jako "skreślony ze stanu", a między tymi zdarzeniami potrafi minąć czasem i 10 lat

We fill the date in the "scrapped" field only if the vehicle has been physically destroyed.
If the vehicle is officially written-off in the documents, but it still remains on the operator's property (even as a complete wreck), we consider that it is still owned by the operator and we do not enter any dates in the "scrapped" or "owned until" fields.
If the vehicle is not in service anymore and has been sold, but it still physically exists (e.g. as a storing shed in somebody's yard), add the new owner (presumably, a "? xxx").

3.8. Name of vehicle is the name given by manufacturer. It doesn't matter if vehicle was rebuilt, shortened or modified by any other means. For example, if Ikarus 280 was rebuilt to Ikarus 260, it will still be Ikarus 280, according to our rules.

Data about modernizations, rebuilds etc. or about any additional names used locally by the transportation companies can be added to the "other information" field, but the vehicle name must remain unchanged.

4.3. In the beggining of description we should add place of taking photo like "City, Street name".

... regardless of the fact that the city's name is selected from the drop-down list.

4.5.4. urban train systems - please consider if more accurate is rail part of phototrans.eu (rail.phototrans.eu).

It is impossible to create a single, clear rule for distinguishing suburban tram, metro (subway) and urban rail systems; if you're not sure where the photo fits better, ask on the forum and/or consult lists of tram and subway systems on wikipedia or urbanrail.net.

4.6 We do not publish following type of transports:
4.6.1. Cable cars
4.6.2. Funiculars. Publish it on rail.phototrans.eu (exception is trams from Lisboa).

Tyle teoria, a w praktyce...

http://open.phototrans.net/1014,14250,384.html
http://open.phototrans.eu/1014,12399,384.html
itd.

Przydałoby się to jakoś uporządkować. Część autobusowa lepiej nadaje się z przyczyn praktycznych do publikacji takiej egzotyki, mogą wisieć i na kolejowym, byle jednak zrobić porządek (dziś niektóre systemy są obecne tu i tu). Inna sprawa że w niektórych przypadkach te funikulary czy inne zębatki mają charakter miejskiego tramwaju a nie wyciągu narciarskiego, jak choćby w Budapeszcie albo Sztutgarcie (skąd zdjęcia zresztą też tu wiszą)

[empi]

Skleisz to jakoś w zwarty regulamin z kolejnymi punktami? Żeby już wszystko było gotowe.

4.6 We do not publish following type of transports:
4.6.1. Cable cars
4.6.2. Funiculars. Publish it on rail.phototrans.eu (exception is trams from Lisboa).

Tyle teoria, a w praktyce...

http://open.phototrans.net/1014,14250,384.html
http://open.phototrans.eu/1014,12399,384.html
itd.

Przydałoby się to jakoś uporządkować. Część autobusowa lepiej nadaje się z przyczyn praktycznych do publikacji takiej egzotyki, mogą wisieć i na kolejowym, byle jednak zrobić porządek (dziś niektóre systemy są obecne tu i tu). Inna sprawa że w niektórych przypadkach te funikulary czy inne zębatki mają charakter miejskiego tramwaju a nie wyciągu narciarskiego, jak choćby w Budapeszcie albo Sztutgarcie (skąd zdjęcia zresztą też tu wiszą)

Też bym chciał zrobić porządek, ale problemy są analogiczne do wojny o ciężarówki. Na przykład jak podjęto decyzję o przeniesieniu metra na TWB2 mój kolega był bardzo niezadowolony i w sumie przestał dodawać przez to zdjęcia na TWB. No ale jak widzę w tamtym wypadku udało się to dokończyć. Widać że autorytaryzm jest bardziej skuteczny od demokracji.
Co do dziwacznych sprzętów to ja postuluję rozbicie serii "miscealanous vehicles" na kilka podgrup.

[decomposed05]

4th version:

1. Country subdivision

1.1. We are adding places (cities or towns) which have registered operators or settlements having municipal privileges.
1.2. Photos should be connected in order of country subdivision rules.
1.2a In general, do not add cities/villages with population smaller than 1 000 people, unless there is no other larger municipality in close proximity.
1.2b In case of large metropolitan areas, which consist of many districts or boroughs officially treated as independent towns (e.g. London, Brussels), we do not fall into details and we treat the entire area a a single city.
1.2c list of subdivistion rules by country:
- Poland / Polska - gmina
- we are waiting for input from other countries.

2. Operators
2.1 Operators should be added to place where main residence of company is located. No matters where company using its vehicles.
2.2. We are writing only data we are sure. If we do not know, leave field blank.
2.2.1. In field "Full name" we should write full name of operator without abbreviations and suffixes like GmBh, DOO, SA etc. In case we are adding unknown operator we can insert "?" here.
2.2.2. In field "Abbreviation" we should add abbreviation of operators name like "MPK" from "Miejskie Przedsiębiorstwo Komunikacyjne". Try to make the abbreviation as short as possible and do not use quotation marks. Descriptions and other information are not allowed here. In case we are adding unknown operator we can insert "?" here.
2.2.3. Field "Address" should be filled with postal code, city and number of house (if applicable).
2.2.4. Field "Telephone number" whe can write telephone number starting with "+" without brackets, minuses.
2.2.5. In field "Web Page" we should type web address of official page of company starting with "http://". Adding unofficial sites here is not allowed. Please remark You can add links to unofficial sites in the "other information" field, if they contain valuable, comprehensive information about the transportation system (e.g. fleet lists, history).
2.2.6. "Other Information" is supposed to add more details about operator like history.
2.3. Adding divisions, units, depots is not allowed. Vehicles should be added to main company / operator. We can describe assigment in "other information" under vehicle.
2.4. We should avoid needles adding operator. In case small changing of legal form of ownership (in case of private company for example) we do not need to create new operator. Just inform about it in "other information". If you have doubt what to do. Ask on forum.
2.5. Leasing is treaten like a "normal" ownership of company which is using vehicle. We can add info about it in "other information". That also applies to the following situation: if the vehicle is being operated by a sub-contractor or leased for a longer, permanent period, we enter the actual operator as the owner, even if the vehicle officially belongs to another company or a governmental authority. The "Rented" fields are intended mainly for short, temporary rents and tests.
2.6. Vehicle manufacturers exists here as a owners of demonstration buses only. Vehicles produced on order of operators we treat as property of these operators. In other way we would have a lot of solarises assigned to Solaris Bus company, volvos to Volvo bus company because every vehicle was in factory during production and it is needless information.
2.7. Vehicles of operators we do not know we should assign to operator "?" and name of the capital of the smallest administrative subdivision you can derive basing on the registration plates or other characteristics of the vehicle.
In some countries which do not distinguish subdivisions on their plates (e.g. Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania) you might probably need to assign the vehicle to the country's capital.

3. Vehicles
3.1. Before adding new vehicle record, please check if vehicle already exists in database. It can be done using function "search vehicle".
3.2. No presumptions or guesses allowed. You should not add information if you are not completely sure of it. Any unconfirmed information should be put in Other Information field.
3.3. Writing "xxx", "x", "?", "." as registration plates or vehicle numbers are not allowed.
3.4. In case if model of vehicle is unknown, it should be assigned to "Miscellaneous vehicles". Assigning vehicles to invalid models is forbidden.
3.5. If model name is not listed, ask it to be added on forums because only people with "Editor" privileges can do that. This is for avoiding mess in list of vehicles.
3.6. Vehicles which have different body and chassis (like Volvo, Scania, EAGs) should be described in field "Full name" as "Chassis manufacturer and model / Body manufacturer and model", for example "Volvo B12R / Alfabusz Regio". Please note that there are a lot of exceptions of this rule so please consult it on forum or look like similar vehicles are described.
3.7. In case there are more than one VIN numbers for the vehicle, body VIN number should be put into "VIN" field while others into "Other Information".
3.8. Name of vehicle is the name given by manufacturer. It doesn't matter if vehicle was rebuilt, shortened or modified by any other means. For example, if Ikarus 280 was rebuilt to Ikarus 260, it will still be Ikarus 280, according to our rules. Data about modernizations, rebuilds etc. or about any additional names used locally by the transportation companies can be added to the "other information" field, but the vehicle name must remain unchanged.
3.9. Service (non-passenger) vehicles like trucks and vans should be add to „Technical Equipment”. Exceptions are rebuilt buses which should remain in original model, according to rule 3.8.
3.10. Vehicle trade names (like "Citaro", "Axer") should not be written in "Full name of vehicle" field. we do not use trade names of vehicles. Trade names are additional catchy names given by producers for advertisement purposes, but not used in official documents. For example bus called "Mercedes Citaro" should be described in "full name of vehicle" as "Mercedes O530". Sometimes we are making exceptions (for example Van Hool buses). Rough list of manufacturers and models which we use trade names can be found on: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2784&start=130#p47095 and before adding new vehicle look at existing entries for similar vehicles. If you still have doubts, please ask on our forum.
3.11. Vehicle can be deleted by changing its owner to Recycled Operator.
3.12. Scrap date. We fill the date in the "scrapped" field only if the vehicle has been physically destroyed.
If the vehicle is officially written-off in the documents, but it still remains on the operator's property (even as a complete wreck), we consider that it is still owned by the operator and we do not enter any dates in the "scrapped" or "owned until" fields.
If the vehicle is not in service anymore and has been sold, but it still physically exists (e.g. as a storing shed in somebody's yard), add the new owner (presumably, a "? xxx"). - To discuss.
3.13. The "full name of vehicle" edit field is used to specify the type of model. Please make changes only if it is uncorrect or inaccurate. Adding or removing a space or other characters is not allowed (for example, changing "O530G" into "O 530 G"). The unification of the signs is very necessary for efficient searching. If you think way of describing types is uncorrect in our database, please consult it on forum, do not change on your own.

4. Photos.
4.1. Vehicles rented should be described with number of owner.
4.2. Photos from factories should be assigned to future owners of vehicles.
4.3. In the beggining of description we should add place of taking photo like "City, Street name" regardless of the fact that the city's name is selected from the drop-down list. Exception is photo of details and interior of vehicles ..
4.4. It is forbidden to add photos with blurred or modified faces or registration plates in graphical programs.
4.5. On site we can publish photos of following vehicles:
4.5.1. mini, midi, maxi, mega class Buses (from 9 meters to unlimited length), trams, trolleys, subway - without limits
4.5.2. vans, buses based on trucks and small buses - only first photo of vehicle or information photo (has some interesting aspects)
4.5.3. trams and trolleys - without limits.
4.5.4. urban train systems - please consider if more accurate is rail part of phototrans.eu (rail.phototrans.eu). It is impossible to create a single, clear rule for distinguishing suburban tram, metro (subway) and urban rail systems; if you're not sure where the photo fits better, ask on the forum and/or consult lists of tram and subway systems on wikipedia or urbanrail.net.
4.6 We do not publish following type of transports:
4.6.1. Cable cars
4.6.2. Funiculars. Publish it on rail.phototrans.eu (exception is trams from Lisboa).
4.6.2. Tourist trains like tractors + trailers or supermarket toys. We do not publish at all.
4.6.3. cars without special equipment even it is used by transport company. Exception is first photo vehicle (just for information).

5. Tags
5.1. Tags are not obligatory
5.2. Tags are divided by semicolons without spaces.
5.3. Tags duplicating info from standard search like "registration number", "name of vehicle", "vehicle number" are forbidden.
5.4. Tags of unnumbered routes we should write in direction of going vehicle with space between and after minus (like: Warszawa - Radom)
5.5. Every user can invent and use own set of tags. You can promote it in thread "Tags" of phototrans.eu forum.

Welcome for comments

[empi]

Link do listy Mrozarda jest przeoczeniem, czy celowym działaniem?